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Jeremy: If you had followed the thread, you would see that the Yank's original post had nothing to do with the original theme of the article. It was illogical and irrelevant. Think about that. Religion is the fuel that is letting this issue burn. Tory boy, yeah and i bet we don't get extended news and live crosses for 2 solid days about the Pakistan massacre.

I could be wrong so this is just an opinion, but the Quran is a response Christian Barbarism and rejection of Christianity from the crusades. So I guess the christian world is at least partially guilty of creating this problem from past sins. I'm not disagreeing though - its all down to religion. The way the Islamic extremists started out forcing conversion and then transitioned to convert or die mirrors the Islamic crusades. As the conflict escalates it becomes more and more brutal as people search to justify evil acts via outdated religious texts.

The First Crusade was a response to the Arab invasion of Christian lands, lands that had been Christian for hundreds of years. And at the request of those who had ruled those lands for that whole time. Hardly a reason to hate the Christians. They were invited to drive out invaders. Unfortunately they failed. Had they succeeded the ME may have been a lot more peaceful.

And definitely more advanced.

But who was first is a silly game. A bit like slavery.


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Everyone did it for thousands of years, but for some reason it is all the fault of the USA, who started late and ended early. Though it is never the Arabs, which is odd as they were always the biggest and the best. What we need is not a new Quran, but the development of a form of Islam that allows the interpretation of its words to suit conditions never imagined when it was written down. Nothing in the Koran even suggests hatred of Christians. Moslems believe Jesus Christ was a great prophet, but not God. I suggest everybody, of every faith, should read the holy books of ALL the major religions: the Christian bible, the Jewish Torah, the Koran of Islam, the Upanishads of the Hindus, the teachings of Budda, and others.

You might actually learn something! Yes, 'prison' you are very wrong. The Koran was compiled in the 7th Century by Muhammad allegedly from memorised revelations by the Arch Angel Gabriel in secret - yep sure Muhammed , and the Crusades began in the 11th Century. Muhammed was seeking to build a means of control and legitamacy as he was warring against other tribal factions in the middle East. So - not about Christianity. Mind you Christianity is certainly guilty of the atrocities committed during the various Crusades and the animosity that built during and following this period.


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  6. Events of the Crusades are still quoted today, years later, by Muslim clerics as evidence of Christian barbarism. Hard to argue with that - but some time has past. And that's the problem with religion - holding on to ancient ideologies and grudges that are at odds with the natural development of human ethics and societal norms.

    Religion is literally retarded. On Islam - as Sam Harris puts it so clearly 'the motherlode of bad ideas'. Actually read passages of the Koran and the Hadiths that people still adhere to and you'll see what I mean.

    If you take it literally and seriously - as many do - the outcome is violence, not peace as so many muslims alway trot out. One example - the penalty for leaving the Islamic faith is death. It's in black and white. And as you point out 'prison', there is no New Testament of the Koran to temper the idiocy of these ancient means of control.

    Some muslims will read this and wish I were dead. Please don't kill me! The Koran is not due to "Christian barbarism". It predates the crusades and played out in a different part of the middle east.

    Find another reason to blame Christians or the west. The Koran owns all its own barbarism. I'm heartily sick of fatuous "Crusades" comments that ignore the aggressiveness of Islam. It could equally be said that the barbarity of the crusades was a response to Muslim barbarity. Either way it doesn't really matter, both sides were pretty rank. The real problem is that no fundamentalist religion is compatible with a modern liberal democracy. All fundamentalist religions yearn for a theocracy, no matter how much lip service they pay to democracy.